bent Tie rods

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:12 am

That is also if they know or find the mod....

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:23 am

they will have their "ASS-essors" check out the damage.

its likely then that they will find the mod. if they dont, then they need to hire competent people.

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:48 am

pics of the tie rod.

the big knuckle/ball joint is the part that screws onto the rack.

the other end screws onto the tie rod end ball joint at the spindle thingymajiggy!!!

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:23 pm

so...

after half-hours of research, i have found that the s13 inner tie rods are skinny and weak (no surprise there).

but i've found that the s14 ones are beefy and strong (yay)!!!

the s14 ones will screw straight into place, but apparently you will then need s14 tie rod ends, or tie rod outers, because of the extra beefiness.

amazingly, the oem s14 ones are exactly the same as the tien hard tie rods advertised!!!

and the extra angle achieved by fitting the tein ones, comes from little spacers(washers) that are placed between the tie rod and the steering rack at the point of assembly!!!

hmmm... interesting.

here's a quote from wiki books at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Nissan_240 ... s#Tie_Rods

Tie Rods

[edit] Stock Replacements

It is worth replacing with stock if you are just trying to maintain the car because they do wear out and with that you will lose steering feel, but aftermarket has its advantages as usual.

[edit] Aftermarket Replacements

[edit] Inner Tie Rods

The inner tie rod can be equipped with a spacer to let you have more steering lock to lock. This is good for drifting because you can get more angle in your drift. Also on the S13 the inner tie rods are very small and tend to bend or to break. The S14/Z32 size is much bigger and a necessary upgrade for any real race car. The S14/Z32 inners thread right into the stock steering rack and align with no problems.

[edit] Outer Tie Rods

The OEM outer tie rods are ball joints filled with grease. They are great for longevity, not great for performance. Aftermarket tie rods are pillow ball joints which help with steering feel. They also allow bump steer adjustment which will make the car easier to control.

The Calibrator · Post by **The Calibrator** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:45 pm

Maybe my approach was a bit too subtle but when you see dead bodies lying all over the place and then you look at the car see what caused it it kinda makes a strong impression.

At least I got the message across which was the point.

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:55 pm

yeah you did!!!

calibrator, do me a favour please.

i'm not sure if you still have an s14 in your shop, but if you do, please could you compare the tie rods and tie rod ends between the s13 and the s14!!!

it would be a great help.

i have a feeling the s14 tie rod end has either, a greater length (resulting in a shorter tie rod) or has a greater diameter (and therefore wont fit on the outer tie rod. or it has both of those attributes!

many thanks in advance!!!

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:59 am

i've found out that some of the guys in the porsche 924 challenge are using spherical bearings/rose joints as replacements for their tie rod ends, because they keep bending or breaking them.

they've apparently sourced them through bearing man.

i will go check if they can supply suitable replacements for our 200sx's.

also, i've found out that there may be toyota hilux tie rods that are much stronger that would be replacements for the s14's. and these are much cheaper than both the nissan and tein tie rods.

if i can find these elusive tie rods and find suitable rose joints to replace the tie rod ends, we may just be able to develop a tie rod and tie rod end upgrade that will be reasonably affordable.

will let you know!

johansx · Post by **johansx** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:35 am

Just keep in mind that the weakest link will always break (bend) 1st. So if you beef up the tie rod, what is the next weakest link. Will the next link give you a warning or will it kill you 1st time!

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:52 am

i think i found out why i bent the tie rods in the first place.

got this from a skyline club website http://wiki.r31skylineclub.com/index.ph ... Conversion

One issue I might raise... my friend has that setup on his aussie 31 and went to get a wheel alignment the other day. The guy told him that the tie rod ball joints were at absolute maximum tilt because the car is so low (perfect stance imo!) and its really dangerous...

Picture this: with the steering rack sitting level, the tie rods are pointing upwards towards the steering arms. then in order for the ball joint to go into the steering knuckle they have to be aimed outwards as far as possible. This becomes more extreme as the suspension compresses (i.e. over a bump). seeing as the ball joints are at max to start with, when it compresses there's no movement left so all there is to do is bend stuff... - Decs

my car is very low and this could well be the problem. will have to check it out tonight!

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:44 am

i'm really not sure if you guys care or not, but i keep finding more stuff, so i will just keep posting more:

here's a really good picture that explains all the terminology and shows how the steering spacers add more steering angle, as well as how you can adjust for bumpsteer, especially in cars that are heavily lowered.

i'm not sure that the pic is from an s13/s14 but it carries the same principles!

Gary57 · Post by **Gary57** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:58 pm

my car is very low and this could well be the problem.

You cant just lower a car and expect everything to be hunky doory. It messes up the entire suspension geometry, so all you doing is lowering the center of gravity but messing up every other setting. If you want to lower a car get all the supporting mods to get the handling 100%. Maybe put it on a "suspension dyno" and get it set up properly.

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:18 pm

Gary57 wrote:
my car is very low and this could well be the problem.
You cant just lower a car and expect everything to be hunky doory. It messes up the entire suspension geometry, so all you doing is lowering the center of gravity but messing up every other setting. If you want to lower a car get all the supporting mods to get the handling 100%. Maybe put it on a "suspension dyno" and get it set up properly.

thanks for that insightful piece of information gary. perhaps you could recommend a good suspension dyno specialist in joburg?

(edit) also, i am posting this information here for the benefit of other sx owners, specially those who will be putting their cars on a racetrack.

Gary57 · Post by **Gary57** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:26 pm

thanks for that insightful piece of information gary. perhaps you could recommend a good suspension dyno specialist in joburg?

(edit) also, i am posting this information here for the benefit of other sx owners, specially those who will be putting their cars on a racetrack.

Ill try find out where their is a suspension dyno, know there are a few.

What I was saying is lowering the car doesnt nessesarily make your car handle better, it will lower the center of gravity which will improve the cornering but there might be better ways of improving the handling without messing up the geometry of the car.

Anyway take it as you wish, just trying to help.

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:34 pm

Gary57 wrote:
thanks for that insightful piece of information gary. perhaps you could recommend a good suspension dyno specialist in joburg?

(edit) also, i am posting this information here for the benefit of other sx owners, specially those who will be putting their cars on a racetrack.
Ill try find out where their is a suspension dyno, know there are a few.

What I was saying is lowering the car doesnt nessesarily make your car handle better, it will lower the center of gravity which will improve the cornering but there might be better ways of improving the handling without messing up the geometry of the car.

Anyway take it as you wish, just trying to help.

yeah i know that now, didnt know it at the time of changing the ride height. here's an excellent link to some more info, but its hectic reading.

http://texasnissans.com/tx/forums/showp ... ostcount=3

veecee · Post by **veecee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:42 pm

actually, this link is better, cos it regards all points of suspension tuning!

http://texasnissans.com/tx/forums/showt ... 8fa&t=3691