Water/Methanol Injection

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:16 pm

Fred, what will happen if you run out of water/meths - just curious?

also, can you still add haha-gas to that mixture?

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:42 pm

Firstly I carry 1 liter in the boot for emergency. Secondly I fitted an electronic level sensor to warn me in advance. Thirdly you can upgrade to a full size type 5l or what ever tank in your boot I suppose.Worst case senario, I unplug the electronic control,pump thus off and I turn the boost down to stock and walla

Yes I can add Nitromethane

Gary57 · Post by **Gary57** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:00 pm

Does your system continuously pump or is throttle position set?? Do you run water on meth?? I have never run meth only water, is there a MAJOR difference??

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:18 pm

No, it only pumps from 2.6v to 4.7 volts from the MAF sensor. It does it electronically then. Basically from start boost and up, and the MAF sensor only delivers 4.7 volts max. I only use 50/50 water/mathanol. Never methenol only.The 50/50 mix is by weight and not by volume.On this subject of meths only or water only, is been written pages and pages full. The research on that is established long ago and the result is 50/50 water/meths. Yes there must be a difference using meths added.The meths up the octane, the water for cooling and what a brilliant combination. With 95 feul, you end up 120 octane with meths.Then of course you need to make use of advance timing.

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:54 am

Fred, just another thing - is it true that a water/meths setup will discolour your pipes until they are red? If it is not true, please post a pic of your engine bay as proof?

Gary57 · Post by **Gary57** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:58 am

Will meths corrode the wiper washer bottle?? How much is meths??

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:59 am

That is the closest I will get to own a red sx

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:05 am

N0 it wont corrode your washer bottle.Meths is cheap.R250-00 for 25 liters. Remember the pump must be lower than the water/meths container, or should compensate then with necc valves and those goodies.

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:07 am

But corrosion can be a problem elsewhere.So be careful anyway.

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:09 am

I dont use water wash bottle.

The Calibrator · Post by **The Calibrator** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:31 pm

With 95 feul, you end up 120 octane with meths.Then of course you need to make use of advance timing.

Thats a bit starnge as Methanol has a Octane rating of 95 according to my sources.
As for cooling the methanol will cool as much or more than water due to the very high latent heat of evaporation. All the water does is replace combustible mixture with steam and slow down the flame front.

Methanol cools things down considerably and burns making power. In my opinion water injection is a band aid rather design the car and mods properly in the 1st case.

Gary57 · Post by **Gary57** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:39 pm

Well I have a FMIC and water injection. And when the water injection is on I can get about 0.08Bar more boost. There is definately a noticable diff when it comes on.

I will soon be making it spray the cooler and then the intake, staged and controlled by my ECU. I will have a air intake temp gauge so will be able to see the diff each makes and how much, will let you know when done

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:25 pm

To be exact the octane of meths is 113. I said you should end up 120 with local 95 feul and meths. The meths is not there for cooling. The water does that. The combination of the two is good anyway. I dont know what you mean its burn making power. What does burn making power means? According to my dictionary latent means present or potential. Where on earth do u get water under high pressure to be hot. Water under 150PSI pressure is not hot or steam. It is the opposite. No steam. Without being rude at all, I dont think you understand technology that started off in the second world war.Why against proven technology and how come water/meths working for me and thousands Americans?Proof is there and on paper.My sx is very succesfully tuned with water /meth by local tuner. A very well known tuner and it was just a plessure for them to see the results. Band Aid? Where on earth do you get my sx's power gains for half the PRICE?Total cost for water/meths was R3800-00 for 80 BHP increase without an intercooler?. Check out the forum of Boost Cooler Snowperformance. A whole forum dedicated only to water/meths.Dragsters etc with record times etc. The next point of value will be advantages and disadvantages, but I am going o leave it here, cause there is enough to read on and gain knowledge.

The Calibrator · Post by **The Calibrator** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:00 pm

AG Bell says 89 to 91MON Wikipidia says 123RON. Still not going to raise your fuel octane to 120.
Methanol latent heat of evaporation 445 btu/lbs Petrol 135 btu/lbs (BTU= British Thermal Unit its the amount of energy required to raise 1lb of water by One deg F)

I quote AG BEll, Forced Induction Performance Tuning
"Methanol has a very high latent heat of evaporation it takes a lot of heat to be converted from a liquid to a vapour.This heat is drawn from from the inlet tract, combustion chamber, the piston crown and the valves. An internally cooler engine has a cooler inlet charge and more dense mixture and the power goes up. Also less heat means a slower burn so the engine may accept more spark lead or more boost"

I quote again
"during combustion the water is turned to steam that conversion pulls heat out of the combustion process slowing the rate of pressure rise in the combustion process.Additionally these steam particles get inbetween fuel and oxygen molecules which slows combustion"

Now for the downside Methanol burns with a very pale flame and cannot be seen in sunlight.
Methanol is absorbed by the body converted to formaldehyde and is stored in the fat cells it is never eliminated and builds up untill you start having serious side effects.

In MY opinion water injection is a band aid for a problem which a properly designed system would not have.

You run water injection if it turns you on, Me I am happier designing things in such a way that it is not needed.

ChemCool · Post by **ChemCool** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:42 pm

Methanol is absorbed by the body converted to formaldehyde and is stored in the fat cells it is never eliminated and builds up untill you start having serious side effects.

Dont know what this sentence of yours about nutrition is applicable. But now that you quote sources, it will end source against source then. I still dont follow you and your quote on the steam situation. Once the water is vapourised under high pressure, it enters the TB inlet not as steam. I dont use any heat outside to heat water. But I will get back to you on this one. Most probably will be back with source quotes. But in the mean time - what is your answer yes or no? is water/meths working or not? Which system or car is properly designed? Why do some add bigger turbos and intercoolers?