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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:38 am
by Vlade
1200BHP from a 1600cc is pretty farking impressive, but like you said that aint gonna happen on pump fuel haha...
I guess running ALS, new turbo's was used for each race...
I think for a real world comparison we should rather look at WRC, F1 is like Star-Trek
Cosworth WRC head and venturis
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:16 am
by Gary57
I have a pretty good idea of what u mean. You want the entance of the runners pointing at the throttle body.
Yes that kind of thing or at least facing it in the best possible way. I have never built a manifold nor worked on a flow bench but have studied flow characteristic extensively. This was my idea of a system that would flow best, not sure if it would work but just a thought. It would look cool though hey
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:24 am
by The Calibrator
It would look cool but I doubt its going to work well.
If you look inside a V8 M5 plenum they point all over the place some of the venturis even face backwards.
Packaging is always the biggest issue when trying to fit a manifold into an engine bay.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:27 am
by Gary57
but I doubt its going to work well.
Why would you doubt it would work well?? The flow characteristic would be brilliant.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:35 am
by Phinx
Renault's engine designer in the F1 era invented the system of a TB on the turbo. It is linked to the accell linkage and closes when the throttle is closed allowing the turbo to spin in a vacuum. Once they had materials to cope with the extreme heat generated they did run a bypass valve which allowed air into the exh housing and injected fuel into it to keep the boost up.
They could generate full boost on a closed throttle and I am pretty sure the other guys caught on quickly.
On another note the fuel they used was 87% toluoene and Shell developed a technique to impact water into the fuel as a anti detonation measure. This was done in such a way that water molecules were surrounded with fuel molecules. When the water was heated it burst the "package " helping with atomization.
this allowed the Frerraris to make huge power.
That BMW motor was a production 318 cast iron block with a dry deck system so water couldnt get into the combustion chambers when the head gasket blew. Note I said when not if they even had small grooves in the block to channel the gasses away from the other combustion chambers so that the motor would finish the race.
Its pretty fascinating stuff.
Interesting Stuff. Really , but its a real mission getting your hands on information for these motors...
1200BHP from a 1600cc is pretty farking impressive, but like you said that aint gonna happen on pump fuel haha...
They where 1498cc But that still damn amazing. On qualifying boost the motor could produce 1500 hp and it was common on qualifying for them to remove the "waste-gate"
The BMW motor was the strongest but the Honda motor was the most advanced using the "Injector" Anti-lag system first.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:38 am
by Gary57
It has only even been a speculation on what boost they were running, there has never been an official technical release saying 5bar, only rumours, but so many rumours lead us to believe 5 bar is a good guess. I think some guys in NHRA compact series are running up to 5bar?!
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:52 am
by Phinx
Not really. Allot of the information has come available.
But I still have allot to read up on and Research
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:21 am
by jon
Informative thread, A+
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:24 am
by Gary57
I see they used the same make of cooler as I currently have on my sx
, makes me wonder about changing it
.[/quote]
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:30 am
by Vlade
http://www.gurneyflap.com/
for the info that phinx is posting...
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:49 pm
by The Calibrator
Why would you doubt it would work well?? The flow characteristic would be brilliant
If you had a infintely large plenum chamber possibly but you would still have the shadow effect i spoke about. I still doubt it would make more power then the current way of doing things.
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:37 am
by Vlade
Did some reading this is what I noted...
* Plenum capacity can have effect on power output
less = more response less power
more = more power less response
capacity normally = engine capacity
* What works great for NA engines should work well for Turbo applications, turbo applications don't benefit a hell of a lot from venturi design
* One way to increase power and response is a multi butterfly plenum much like what the skyline GTR has, each runner has it's own butterfly and a big butterfly at the entry...
I'm only relaying what I've read, can't put my head on a block for this
Dahlback racing intake design... rather interesting
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:00 am
by Vlade
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:15 am
by The Calibrator
I would have said that those ram tubes are too long and impeding the airflow.
Theory is that you need at least 1.5 diameters clearance
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:23 am
by Gary57
* Plenum capacity can have effect on power output
less = more response less power
more = more power less response
Yes thats correct but you have to remeber the volume of the runners themselves, these would act like a plemun.